How Swati Dalal inspires you to think big#MBA#MDI Gurgaon # TataSteel #TAS #IMD Switzerland #Genpact

How Swati Dalal inspires you to think big#MBA#MDI Gurgaon # TataSteel #TAS #IMD Switzerland #Genpact

Q1. Tell us about your schooling, college, siblings, parents, etc.

Ans: I was born and brought up in Delhi. In fact, for first 22 years of my life, I stayed in Delhi, I did my graduation from Delhi University. I did my BA from Gurgaon which was not too far from my house, completely life centred over there. I have two siblings — an elder sister and a younger brother; they were both growing up with me in Delhi, now they are settled in the US.

Q2. What was your motivation for your first MBA at MDI and what was the experience?

Ans: I will be very candid here, I was doing my Economics from Delhi University, and I didn’t know better. The only two career paths in front of me were either I get placed in one of the consultancies like Aeon at that time was a different company, or one of these financial KPMG, and become an analyst over there. It was a very low paying job and very hardworking job; you work for long hours and it didn’t seem like a career which I wanted to have. On the other hand, there was CAT, you prepare, you give, if you are lucky enough you will get a good score and you might end up in a good business school. All this happened in 2006–2007, so the economy was booming, everywhere in the newspapers you could read about the great placements that were happening in the IIMs and this was like the pinnacle of India in economy at that point in time. With stars in my eyes, extremely glamourized by all I read in the business standard and everything, I decided to do an MBA right after my graduation.

The experience was fun I would say. This was the first multi-cultural experience I was getting even in the said context of India. I had not met people outside Delhi, my circle was very limited and I hadn’t seen much of the world, so I saw so many people coming from different parts of the country and bringing in so many experiences. It really broadened my view of what is possible. To be honest, I was 21 when I started my program at MDI and I didn’t know anything about corporate world, I didn’t know anything about what is banking, what is FMCG, what is industry, absolute zero knowledge. Everything that I got to know about how to shape my career happened during MDI so it was a great experience of course.

Q3. Then you joined Tata Steel in the marketing vertical and then TAS through the in-house process. Can you tell us about how exactly that works?

Ans: I think Tata Steel is a fantastic organisation; I think it’s one of the best organisations I have worked for, it’s an institution. Again, when I joined Tata Steel, in my interview itself I had no idea what is steel, I had zero idea of what I am going to do but just meeting the seniors and talking to them, I was literally a kid over there, so I can say that the 2 years I spent at Tata Steel, I literally grew up. It was my first corporate experience, and so much faith and so much resources were put into me by the organisation to train me, to develop me, to make me understand how they work in a corporate, what it entails, what is sales, what is marketing,; great experience. I was in Jamshedpur for some time and then I was back to Delhi and throw out in sales and account management.

Q4. Steel market is quite different from FMCG market. So you market like flat products, long products?

Ans: No actually, I came because I had an interest more in consumer products when I had joined. When I started my career with Tata Steel, they were trying to settle a rural distribution channel for some of their Agrico as well as bio-division. I was working with Sunil Bhaskar at that time and my entire role for one year was centred around setting a distribution network in Orissa, Jharkhand, Bihar, so it involved travelling, and so it was a very interesting experience because as I said, I never left Delhi and I had not seen the world and this really brought me up close and personal with what is real India, I had never seen East India before and that one year in Jamshedpur was excellent learning. It was more like a project-based experience, then eventually I moved into flat products after a year or so in Delhi. What I would say about flat products, is because it’s such a mature organisation, and it is such a robust organisation, the learnings that you get on lean processes and how you actually apply it on the ground, you can’t learn it anywhere else.

Q5. How was your experience of getting into TAS through the in-house process?

Ans: I would say that TAS was an aspiration like most people in Tata Group; you see TAS officers, you see the kind of opportunities they get so it was an aspiration. However, because it’s a long journey, it’s not something you can completely dedicate yourself for 8 months and not do your job. So for me it was an option, it was an upgrade into what I was doing, and what I would recommend a lot of people who are going through the same is, network extensively with people within the task because the process is pretty simplistic; you give a GMAT, if you have a certain kind of score you can apply. There is a long application form which you have to hand right, and then there are rounds of group discussions, presentations, interviews, it’s very holistic process which lasts for months altogether. It starts somewhere in September-October and goes on till March of the following year, so it’s a long process. Most important thing is that everybody is more than willing to help within the task network so reaching out to as many task people as possible, reaching out to as many senior managers for help. I remember that even within Tata Steel, I had gone to so many top manage shares, all the VPs and who not and I was completely shameless about it; I would say, “I have a task and I need your help, can you please take a mock interview? Can you please see my application? Can I do a round-up with you?” I was completely shameless about it and I don’t know how many people I went to in that process, and finally it happened.

Q6. Tell us more about TAS. TAS would have been an eclectic experience, taking you through myriad Tata Group companies — Tata AutoComp, TTSL, Tata Power, Dorabji Tata Trusts, Taj Trent. Which was the best stint? How is TAS very different from a normal Tata Group employee?

Ans: There is a huge difference; I have experienced both, I was in Tata Steel as an employee and then as a Group resource with the TAS umbrella. Again in would say the first and the biggest difference is the kind opportunities you will get and the kind of doors that will open up for you if you are a TAS person, and the program is structured in a way it is obviously a legacy program, it has huge amount of support within the group. For me, I think many stints were special and I was also like most TAS managers, looking for something specific and that’s why I took up those stints. For example, my stint with Tata Power was because I wanted a core strategy and corporate development experience and there is no team better than Tata Power strategy and corporate development team because of the nature of merges and position that happened over there. Besides the shorter stints which happened during the first year of TAS (3 months), in the longer term stints I was with Taj and Trend and both of them are very different organisations and both of them come with their own good parts and not-so-good parts. I would like to talk about Taj over here because I spent a lot of time with Taj and why I was stuck with Taj for 4 years, and that is that company is an institution. When you are working with Taj much like Tata Steel, it has a very unique DNA to it. People who are working over there are working because of their absolute love for what they do which you don’t see in many industries. Hospitality is not the most highest paying industry, so you come across people who are working for passion for what they are doing and that I think really inspired me. I met some really amazing people over there during my journey in Taj and I think it was a great experience.

Q7. Do TAS officers eventually become MDs?

Ans: There’s nothing like that. I think we are all living in times where companies are going through constant evolution, so even you as an employee have to constantly re-invent yourself to upgrade your skills and you can’t rely on just one badge. It definitely gets you into the room but what you do in the room is completely upto you. So I don’t think that it’s a kind of program where it’s a rule to become an MD. When I joined Taj, I joined a specific team and I got that opportunity because I came from TAS cohort and that was an all TAS team, there were some 7–8 members in the team and except of the head of them team who came from a banking background, the entire team was a TAS team. So nobody asks you everyday that since you are from TAS you should be growing, nobody cares; you do your job, you perform so you get promoted.

Q8. What was your motivation for the second MBA from IMD, Switzerland? Was Kshitij’s stint at IMD your inspiration?

Ans: First of all it was not an easy decision, it took us many months to take this decision. We were both in middle management roles and we were doing fairly well in our career paths and he was a GM and I was heading a small team and we were on a path we would have continued, then things would have been good for us within Tata Group as well. However we both are big travellers, we both love travelling and going to newer places. We also have many friends under the TAS umbrella and I think it’s not something unique that we did. We have many inspirations from the TAS circle who we followed our path to do a second MBA. Doing a second MBA is very common within the TAS circle and we have lots of friends who went to Harvard, Chicago, Oxford, Stanford, etc. before we took this call and we have seen their journeys, they were extremely inspirational. People who spent 5–7 years within TAS got some solid experience and then they move to different opportunities outside. However, when we started we didn’t think about any of this. We wanted a better life outside of Bombay, Tata Group is a very global group however the power centre is Bombay, so you keep on coming back to Bombay no matter how far you go. I have a young daughter, she was 2.5 years at that point in time and we were having these thoughts that is there somewhere we can have a better life for her, a better balance? So, that was the starting point of the story, however we had not fully decided whether we are going to leave Tata Group and go for good or we will just take a break and take a sabbatical for a little while and then come back. When Kshitij decided to do it we were like let’s just take one year of break and he would do his MBA from IMD. IMD because — it was extremely well aligned with his experience, it’s a school known for placements in industry, very good connects with the manufacturing industries; Kshitij had that kind of strong background with motors, very strong emphasis on leadership so what you see the average age is 30+ so you have a lot of people coming from brackets of 30–35 for their MBAs. It was a good fit in terms of where we were in our career, the kind of profile IMD attracts and the kind of future prospects IMD creates. It was obviously a huge plus that it was Switzerland because we were also very cognizant about that fact. We had also looked at INSEAD but it is in Fontainebleau and Fontainebleau is a very small city almost like a French village. If Amaya had to move then we didn’t want it to be a place where there is not proper schooling or other things become an issue. We wanted a city which is reasonably safe and big enough but not too big that it becomes difficult to live in. There were a lot of factors we weighed in, for months we weighted average charts of what makes sense and finally we zeroed down to IMD and I think it’s one of the only schools he applied to and he got it. I had not decided by then what I am going to do so he started his program and I was still in Bombay at that point in time but once I visited Lausanne, it was such a beautiful city, it had such a calming effect and I could see Amaya over there blending into the city so I decided to take a sabbatical and join Kshitij for 8–10 months and the plan was once his program gets over we will come back and join Bombay, we would have got an ice break and everything, but as he started experience his program, it really changed his perspective and he got super into it and the opportunities he would get after this would be fantastic so suggested me to apply as well. He was the person who actually motivated me to do it. Even then we didn’t know what to do and that’s what life is. I applied, I took my GMAT, I got into IMD I had an admit and now I am waiting do we stay or are we going back. So finally we decided I will join and then next step started which means he has to find a job here because he can’t look at Germany, UK, he has to stay here. So, that’s the starting point.

Q9. In the second MBA, does it give a sense of déjà vu?

Ans: I can’t speak for others; I will speak for myself. I did my first MBA from 2007–2009, Facebook had just started in India at that point in time so you can imagine where the world was and today it is one of the leading billions and billions of dollars of organisation. Amazon was not even in India when I had done my first MBA. The point I am trying to make is that the world has changed at such a fast pace in such strategic and critical ways for the past 10 years that to think what I learnt 10 years ago would be relevant now, in itself is not true. What I learnt in my MBA in MDI was extremely useful for the job I did the next year or maybe the next to next year. The realm of my knowledge shifted significantly once I moved into the TAS circle and then people have to upgrade themselves. You can do that through executive education courses, you can do it through training, you can do it through many different ways but you have to do it. Hence when I went to my MBA program this year and I was expecting exactly the same, there was a repetition may be about 10% in accounting and finance, however how you apply the knowledge has changed significantly in the last 10 years. Most of the content is digital, there was a huge part of the course that focussed upon digital technologies, digital applications, innovation, etc. I had not even herd of designed thinking in my first MBA. We have such a huge module on designed thinking now, agile way of working, all these concepts have come up in last 5–7 years which are now defining how we work. No matter which education program you do, it will upgrade you. The second big difference is between an international MBA and an MBA within India, I am sure in India also things have changed in the last 10 years, but for me as a person who worked in India all my life, it was a huge exposure. I had never worked with people coming from 40–50 different nationalities, so many different cultures, it really broadens your mind, it provokes a lot of thinking of how limited your entire world was and I think that is a precious experience.

Q10. How does the ROI work for a European MBA? The general perception is that there are no campus placements there — isn’t that a huge challenge?

Ans: It’s not true that there are no campus placements; there are campus placements. However, it is not structured as it is structured in India so you would not have Day 1, Day 0, there is no concept like that. Companies which have long-lasting relationship with the institutes, they come for presentations, then they will come for first round of interviews, usually final round will take place at their premises. It’s not a 3 day process, it’s usually a 3 month process so it’s long. It has it’s flow however B-schools play a very critical role in getting companies on campus in making sure you are connected to the companies, and aligning and assisting that process. So it’s not true that you are on your own and now you go find your job, it doesn’t happen like that. I got a job from IMD recruitment team itself, my husband got a job with IMD recruitment team itself, so there are more and many companies that are there. In fact IMD is a smaller school, if you go to INSEAD, Harvard, Stanford, there are big, big processes. Even in India, the B-schools don’t provide you an assurance you will get a job or there is no job guarantee, however there is a lot more emphasis on making sure everybody gets placed within those 3–4 days, is not the case here. I graduated in December and of a batch of 90, almost 60 people had jobs in hand by the time we graduated. 30 still didn’t have jobs in hand which doesn’t mean now they are on their own. The recruitment office will keep on providing them service and network for as long as it takes, but there is a lot of individual effort which is required as well. Also, there is no spoon-feeding in these colleges. When I was running on a Genpact process, IMD connected me to Genpact. Now it is for you, your visas, your interviews, how you schedule them, how you schedule your travel to go to London, that’s all for you to do and that is also the expectation.

Q11. In terms of cost and returns, how does the Maths workout?

Ans: Again, it’s very different for different people depending on the geography you get a job in, and if you go through these B-school reports, you would know that IMD usually says that you recover your cost within 2 years, Stanford would say you recover within 3 years, all those numbers are there, but a very broad maths for me is if you get reasonably good job out of these schools, the kind that is expected, then I think you should be able to recover the cost of your MBA through your savings within 2–3 years easily. For IMD, the cost is 85000 CHF for the fees, and then there are living expenses about 20000–30000 CHF. You can apply for student loans; I would want to talk about this because people in India are sceptical about loans usually. There are many, many crowd funding platforms available today which provide collateral free loans to students at fairly good interest rates. One of the most popular ones is Prodigy, it is extremely easy; it takes a matter of hours once you have an admit to get a loan from Prodigy. They are obviously collateral free; there interest rates are usually high in the bracket of around 9–10%. However, if you do enough research, you would find specific to different countries. There are many of them that provides very attractive interest rates as well. If you find a collateral free loan in India, then definitely go for that, don’t go for Prodigy because it’s interest rates are also high and it’s obviously dollar denominated.

Q12. How is your life now in Genpact in terms of after two MBAs, you must be well versed with the principles of management?

Ans: It’s a very new industry for me, it’s been one month since I started and this entire business process management, Genpact has it’s own journey, it’s moving towards digitalised services now and there is a lot of focus on digital within the company. I am completely back to school to be honest; I am learning as I am going along, every single day brings a lot of learning, and it’s like doing another MBA in itself because of the amount of trainings that I am having to undertake. However, I think all the experience that I have accumulated over years, what it does help me substantially is that you don’t get bogged down my stress too much, and you develop very strong processes of adapting to change. I have changed industries so many times that now I have my own internal process of how I am going to deal with a new industry this time and that is super helpful with Genpact right now.

Q13. If you had the chance to rewind, what would have you done differently in the last one and a half decades?

Ans: I think I would spend less time with TAS. I spent about 8 years with TAS, I would have probably cut it down to 6, because I think every step would have been critical. If I wouldn’t have done MDI, I wouldn’t have got into Tata Steel and TAS. If I wouldn’t have gotten into TAS, I wouldn’t have got the experience that got me to IMD and then to Genpact. Everything lead to something else; so you cannot really remove any steps in between, but I could have optimised time around certain steps, because there is a learning curve, after a certain point you get diminishing returns so you have to find for yourself when is that optimum time when you reach that and that’s the point you move to the next step.

Q14. Any regrets in your career journey?

Ans: Same. I think I could have optimised a little more time. TAS is such a heady process that it really makes you feel good about yourself, the opportunities you get are so exciting and on a daily basis your life is so cool that you sometimes lose the larger perspective. My only regret is that I opened up my vision to larger opportunities and bigger world later than I should have.

Q15. Is your daughter learning French?

Ans: She is fluent in French now. She is 5 now, once we moved to Lausanne, she was 3 at that time and she started her school; she was sent to a public school here and it was completely French speaking so she had no other option than to learn. Within a year she became fluent and she is quite good now.

Q16. What is your fitness mantra?

Ans: Just running around her, yelling at her, making her do things that she doesn’t want to do.

Q17. Any last word of advice you would want to give to people watching this show?

Ans: Think big. Always think big — like the biggest you can!